H.O.T.+Oral+Interactive+Notes

  (End of Maxim Maximich, p. 53)   Pg. 76:         Pg. 26-27: “I must tell you that Kazbich imagined that Azamat…elimination” 
 * Generation Gap:**
 * Show Maxim’s contempt towards the younger generation
 * Reformation was required for the society (old ideas should be abandoned)
 * So it showed that older generation should make changes—since rich people
 * Even if one had a rank, but no wealth (land, serfs), it was of no use—due to the Russian society
 * Huge distinction between the generations
 * Wealthy people judge only from rank (military)
 * Western Influence:**
 * Cold war, people starving
 * Russia was behind, but had a strong military, so from this aspect they gained influence from European countries
 * Dueling:**
 * Grushnitsky and Pechorin dueled, because Princess Mary was closer to Pechorin
 * Grushnitsky lost his honor because Princess Mary chose Pechorin over him
 * Grushnitsky set up a plan for a duel so he could humiliate Pechorin
 * Russians when influenced by other cultures will justify/accustom to others principles
 * Russia is easy to adapt to other cultures
 * Paradox

Joyce   **Does the physical appearance actually matter to the book?** <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-more of how it's important for the atmosphere <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">page. 8 or 9 (at this conversation ended, continue walking) <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-described a lot how the environment is <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-help each other <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-cold <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-affect the story <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-harsh/ punishing but also incredibly beautiful <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> -two types <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> 1. military (deadly situation) <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> 2. higher class (noble) resort time <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> -spa place <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-reflects how P as character is <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> -adorable <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;"> -at the same time: let the heartbroken <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-vivid image sets out the characters <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-biggest fear: falling in love with one of them <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-25 years in military <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-did any male in the book feel guilty? <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-none of them actually felt guilty about treating Bela that way <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-no one cared about the women <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-also the fact that only male can earn honor for family

<span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">**Page 31** <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-so there we can see the proof where the character and environment fit <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-captin is criticizing Asia <span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">-'with the shout and curse'--yes, he does not like it

<span style="color: #1a9cea; font-family: 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; font-size: medium;">BongJin&Kevin Woo


 * 1) Physical Environment
 * 2) Mentioned Pechorin was being bored with Bela, so hunting.
 * 3) Bela was forced into like Pechorin, he felt guilty.
 * 4) "No offense", said to Jessica Li and Joyce :)
 * 5) More physical oriented
 * 6) Older women were respected since they raise children but young people who were inexperienced weren't respected.
 * 7) "That's a good point."


 * 1) Pg. 31
 * 2) People who live here are well adjusted to this environment.
 * 3) Not exactly praising Caucasus but trying to show realistic side of it.


 * 1) Pg. 95
 * 2) Lermontov didn’t very much appreciate the form of government at the time. Didn’t like feudalism where only rich people get stuff.
 * 3) Before sent, they have negative connotation of Caucasus, but after being sent there they like the place.
 * 4) Orientalism only makes generalization.

Bongela Kimidi


 * 1) Pg. 53


 * Criticism of the younger generations


 * Believes that change is needed in society, feudalism was not very well liked in Russia


 * May have had the status but most did not have wealth
 * Could not recover b/c of system
 * Status was determined by what you had


 * 1) Western influence


 * Russia went into europe,
 * Younger soldiers wanted the change in Europe]
 * Russia stayed neutral


 * 1) Dueling


 * Wanted a duel to regain his honor


 * 1) Pg. 26 - kazbich,


 * Killing of azamats father


 * 1) Conflict between men and women

__
 * "Huh?"
 * Pechorins used Mary to get to Vera

Does the physical environment matter to the book? ** JL: Terrain varies a lot so people want to breed strong horses (Azamat desires) ** mood setter? what about the connection with the plot? harsh, punishing, variety of terrain but incredibly beautiful (military for war, nobility for resort) ** JL: nobility often go to spa resorts ** setting can reflect how pechorin acts and shows his personality contradicting feeling (playing with girls but doesn't know why) sets up characters....biggest fear is falling in love with one of them would bela and pechorin have gotten married if she didn't die? pechorin gets bored with bela, goes off hunting by himself cant really have family when you're in the military (25 years) bela was forced to be with pechorin (guilt?) maxime sympathetic, but not guilty ** JL: relates to role of women, back in those times men didnt treat them equally (JT: except for mothers) ** BD: set on invading other countries, women not crucial, not able to enter military discrimintation because of they didnt join military(?) Brian: russia was more agricultural, not physically fit for military? KW: older ones were respected because they raised children and had more experience male were able to represent honor BD: womens were toys ** JL: men became proud because of power of women (?) ** page 31: "this is bad said the captain..you just cant count on them" BELA ** JL: talking to maxime, "camping on mountain" ** (ford=crossing by foot) ** JL: physical appearance of caucasus reflected the different perspectives viewed upon the area; rivers--environment was talking about people-->environment is unreliable, unpredictably deadly ** relation to characters lermontov liked the place? criticizing asia? ** JL: Caucasus may have represented Asia to lermontov ** criticism or admiration? ** JL: captain criticizing caucasus to show two views (later on admires it) ** next paragraph, "without them we would be even worse out" highlighting difficulty, but showing people who live there are wlel adjusted to environment some people like some people hate, showing both sides ** JL: not praising, but showing a more realistic portrayal of caucasus ** page 95 grushnitsky is russian but doesnt want to protrays lermontov (he likes it, grushnitsky, compared to russia, here he has a higher rank ** JL: serges interview stated that people either love or hate it (from 'experience') ** lermontov didnt respect Russia's form of government, reflects feudalism, rich nobility get all the benefits grushnitsky has high rank BD: assumption--forced to go to caucauss either beause of military or exiled, they had the perception that it wasnt a great place, but when they are sent there they start to like it, know how the place works. never been there think its bad ** JL: stereotypes were formed previously, people already had image in mind., but their judgment can change for the better when they arrive **** JL: orrientalism--generalizes from specific examples they saw, but didn't represent the real thing **  // -Jessica Zhou //  GENERATION GAP End of Maxim Maxymich Pg. 53 "What are unschooled old men doing chasing after the likes of you!…you're embarrassed to extend a hand to our kind" Shows contempt, how the younger generation. They disregarded the older generation. There was a big separation between young and old generation. One reason for this the difference in beliefs between the new and old generation. During Napolean War in 1812, the young generation had a chance to leave Russia and see what a modern day society is like. Thus had new ideas about how a country should be governed when heading back to Russia. These new ideas clashed with the old because it talked about equality, and Russia was still adhering to the feudal system. The many violent mass movements that occurred later on in desire of a new government was sparked by the desire for all people to get money, and not only the wealthy people.

Do you think young people are image conscious? Do they care about how others view them?

In the book, Azamat really wanted the horse of Kazbich's. Followed the idea of "If I own it then I have that rank." Ranking was vital to success.

Pg. 76 "Upon descending…and turned away in disgust." The fact that he's always wearing his army attire shows that he is eager to show off his rank.

WESTERN INFLUENCE Serge's interview mentions how Russian military marched into France saw new government systems and wanted new government systems in their country too.

How does Europe influence how they act or how they think?

DUELLING Pechorin vs. Grushnitsky Grushnitsky's honour was marred because Mary, the woman he was chasing, was seeing someone else.

Pg. 26-27 "I must tell you that Kazbich imagined….They raced to catch him, but they couldn't." Idea of "Well he was only doing what was right according to that culture".

Jessica Li Physical Environment: Role of Woman and “Would P. continue his relationship with Bela if she had lived?” Lermontov view on the Caucuses View on the Caucus
 * (Example from the book) Well, there’s one part where P. travels on horse and it’s raining hard and wants to find a place to stay. A Cossack warned him not to lodge in the village but he went anyways and was ambushed.
 * No, in the book it was mentioned that P. was starting to get bored of Bela
 * Women were valued less because they could not fight in the military, Russian society was male centered because it focused on military expansion
 * Women were like toys that provided men amusement. After the man has been amused, he threw away the woman like a used object.
 * Unpredictable climate and weather
 * Lermontov admired the Caucasus. However, he emphasized the unreliability of the eastern Caucasus by focusing his criticism on Asia.

// - Stanley Zuo & Bangdi Wang // //Notes from group 1 -// Group 1 - Role of women - “ “ men - Physical environment - Military rank s - Russian view of caucus people
 * This may be an assumption, but these people were forced to go to the Caucasus either due to exile or military affairs. Before the people went to the Caucasus, they created the stereotypical negative image of the Caucasus but once interacting closely with the Caucasus.

- Physical environment - Role of women - Men were proud of themselves because they thought they were superior/acted superior. - Page 31- passage //- connor//
 * o Cold – cruel environment – people health each other yet they still have rankings. Physical environment of hard rain – led Pechorin to the nearby “dirty” village where he got ambushed.
 * o Incredibly beautiful – but cold.. snowy.. rain.. two types of Russians going to the caucuses – military and nobles
 * o Would pechorin have married bela if she wasn’t killed? He got bored of her.. Started to look for other women – went to hunt one day – for a while. Maxim with sympathetic – but no one really cared. She was traded for a horse…
 * o Women couldn’t fight in military
 * o More agriculturally focused – women worked in the fields? Useless? Older women were respected – wisdom – young = no experience
 * o Women were toys?
 * o Understanding
 * § Unpredictable, deadly, unreliable – not a praise of Asia – criticize Asia? Present both sides of view – some people hate it – some people love it.